The Citroen DS

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c107

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The Rover p5 thread has been quite good, so I have created this thread about the Citroen DS in general. The DS is a very polarizing car, so this thread will not be for everyone. But for those who are interested I'll try and post from time to time about the DS and also my car.

I got a reminder mailer today from the Citroen Club about the 'Cit in' event. This is basically the annual event for the regional Citroen clubs to get together. I've never been, but had a quick look at the site and noticed that my car is in the banner:

https://cit-in2018.weebly.com/program.html

First car from the left, photo pre-dates my ownership when the car was on the sunshine coast.

My car is a 1970 DS21 BVH

This means it has the semi-automatic gearbox, 2175cc carby engine. My car is not a Pallas model so it has velour trim.

after being in a crash last year, my car is slowly being put back together and should hopefully be back on the road in a couple of months.

The best Citroen DS site on the web (through google translate) is this one:

http://translate.google.com.au/tran...e=UTF-8&u=http://www.nuancierds.fr/entree.htm
 

sean sherry

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Try not to castigate me Bryce .. but :)I had thought about an early DS, probably in the sixties. But I was not impressed by the coarseness of the 4 Cyl Engine.
Morris Minors were designed to have a Boxer Engine instead of the ancient 4 cyl Side Valve they got. Was this also the case with the DS ???
$$$$$$$ shortage ??
 
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c107

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Try not to castigate me Bryce .. but :)I had thought about an early DS, probably in the sixties. But I was not impressed by the coarseness of the 4 Cyl Engine.
Morris Minors were designed to have a Boxer Engine instead of the ancient 4 cyl Side Valve they got. Was this also the case with the DS ???
$$$$$$$ shortage ??

Yes the engine was always the perceived weak point of the car and throughout its almost 20 year run they were trying to wring more power out of it.

The DS was supposed to have a flat six. It would have fit well under the low bonnet. However the prototypes did not produce sufficient power and were problematic. They ran out of time and money so in the end put a hemi head on the old traction avant long stroke four. Originally about 75hp if I recall. 1911cc and over time power grew through compression, carburation etc.

Later, in the mid 60’s the block was updated to the short stroke five bearing block. This was available in 20xxcc, 2175cc and 2347cc. The latter two sizes being available with Djet as an option. This was a big improvement, but the car was still considered under powered by many. The DS23ie had around 140hp gross. My DS21 has about 115hp gross. I would describe the power as adequate. The engine is a bit coarse and unrefined but much better than the old long stroke unit.

Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic.
 

abl567

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"Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic."

Of course! The English and the French adored each other back then. :D

That said I'm sure that didn't restrict deals.
 

BenzBoy

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I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian
 
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c107

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"Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic."

Of course! The English and the French adored each other back then. :D

That said I'm sure that didn't restrict deals.

Ha ha they probably would rather walk than use an english engine. However one of a similar design in france... no problem!
 
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I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian

The later big citroens are all under appreciated.. Even the more recent C6 was a lovely design even though I hear electrics let it down. Not easy to find nice CX or XM, so if you find one, jump on it!
 
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A few articles on buying a DS
 

Attachments

  • Back to the Future.pdf
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  • PopularScienceDSvsXJ6vsMB_screen.pdf
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  • Practical Classics.pdf
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  • DSvRO80v3.pdf
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  • csc_citroen_ds_buyers_guide.pdf
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c107

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Good example of an early french built ID19. Being a 1960 model this would have been one of the last french built cars (imported here) before Australian production started:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Citroen-DS-French-built-1960-ID19-sedan/302619749328

These cars have a dedicated following and are quite different to the later DS like mine. For starters they have the old brake fluid hydraulics which means they don't respond well to being left unused. They have a detuned version of the long stroke DS19 engine so acceleration is slow but they can maintain a pace near their top speed all day. We have a good survival rate of these old ID19s in Australia.




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sean sherry

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DS is a very nice Car for not a lot of money. A lot of others, which were rubbish even when new, astound me at their asking prices. Ours is not to reason why. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
 
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From the photos I would say most likely yes. I like this car but it’s a very odd choice for a museum car as practically nothing is original. For example there is a very original looking DS23ie BVA car for sale that may be more representative of a DS. Ideally you would want a late 50s DS19 for a museum but there are only a handful in Australia and they are tightly held. The other good one for an Australian museum is one of our own Australian built ID19 Parisienne's.
 
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BenzBoy

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From the photos I would say most likely yes. I like this car but it’s a very odd choice for a museum car as practically nothing is original. For example there is a very original looking DS23ie BVA car for sale that may be more representative of a DS. Ideally you would want a late 50s DS19 for a museum but there are only a handful in Australia and they are tightly held. The other good one for an Australian museum is one of our own Australian built ID19 Parisienne's.
Ah yes; but is it a museum that sells a few cars or a car sale yard that has a bit of a museum? Try the latter for size I believe.
Regards,
Brian
 

abl567

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It is in the right location for its business model, an old Bunning's warehouse. Pity they lost the lower prices guarantee!
 
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This one is a nice example of a late production DS.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Citroen-DS-23-1974/SSE-AD-5174813/?Cr=6

The DS23 i.e. was the most powerful. This one comes equipped with a borg warner 35 automatic which is common in Australia but very rare worldwide. Citroen prepared the full automatic transmissions for the USA market but then had to exit due to other regulations that would have cost far too much to get around. So many of the transmissions they already had were put on RHD cars and sent to Australia, another market that favours this model. We (Australia) had outlawed the BVH in 1971, which made this model more attractive. Today many look down on the BW35 equipped models and prefer either the 5 speed manual or the 4 speed semi-automatic. Having driven one of these the added power of the 23ie engine probably gives it similar performance to my DS21 carby. Regardless this car is probably priced as a 5 speed or BVH (and even then probably a bit high).


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Styria

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I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian

Benz Boy, I am interested in your comment about the GTi 6 shaping up as an almost completed project. Is there much more to go ? To me, the car looks just about perfect and completed. Regards Styria
 

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This is an interesting car. Rather rare as it started out life the same as my car, a 1970 DS21 BVH (Non Pallas). However it has been highly modified over the years, including a partial pallasization.
image.jpg

The price seems high to me for such a modified car but overall I like it.

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Citroen-DS-21-1970/OAG-AD-15608301/?Cr=1

Those seats look superb - I think it's only the French that can build such comfortably luxurious seats. The car itself ? I am afraid, a mish mash of a rather loud exterior, with an interior scheme screaming of "not right" and at odds with the exterior colour. Under bonnet - not the best, unless I am getting mixed up with another post. It would not be a car for me. Regards Styria
 

Styria

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It is in the right location for its business model, an old Bunning's warehouse. Pity they lost the lower prices guarantee!

.......TUT, TUT, TUT.......but you guys are probably spot on. Regards Styria
 

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