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SNIPPETS, ODDITIES AND TRAVEL Share your holiday and travel experiences here - whether it be to another town or to another country, or unusual items of interest.

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  #16  
Old 7th May 2017, 06:49 AM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

The little grey cells have been defeated I believe ....
So, are you saying that demand was so high that extra TAs came from Paris to meet the shortfall in production at Slough? It would appear that a Slough built TA had a higher level of finish and may have been more expensive. Qui?
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  #17  
Old 7th May 2017, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

By the way, there is a combination of Phillips head and slotted screws in the woodwork of the Slough TA. Perhaps they should all be slotted screws?
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  #18  
Old 7th May 2017, 08:29 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

OK, so here is the answer to the main question:

1)
The slough traction had to be at least 50% local content to get around tariffs. Therefore, the body panels, motor, gearbox etc were all shipped from France, but everything else including engine ancillaries, interior, wheels, electrics and so on were local content.

The traction was set up as the factory felt a British car should be, with wood dashboard, leather interior and the like. The post war in particular French built cars were rather austere, and so a lower price model was envisaged that came directly from Paris. buying a British car you could also choose your colour! I can't recall how many of these were sold, but I don't think too many.

Then, in 1951 there was the major dock strike in the UK. This was over order 1305. They could not get cars out so cars for the empire were sourced from paris, and today if you look at the used car market and see a paris built car, chances are it is a 1951.

But regardless of the lack of empire exports, 1951 was a good year for the slough factory. Demand was up for cars was out stripping supply. By 54/55 the traction styling was seen as outdated and sales started to taper off.

Will update the other two later today if there are any last minute guesses!
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  #19  
Old 8th May 2017, 06:51 AM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Well here is a secondary question C107. What car is shown in this photo of Macron from the ABC today?
Is it the old Presidential DS?



I can't work it out but maybe you can.
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  #20  
Old 8th May 2017, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Its not the DS. Its no longer owned by the French Government and is in the hands of a private collector.

The DS was built for Charles De Gaulle in 1968 by coachbuilder Henri Chapron





The next president, Georges Pompidou, replaced the DS with a pair of custom presidential limos based on the SM:



Clearly its not these in the photo, not sure of their fate, I think the French Government may still have them, but they are seldom used.

President Hollande was in the press a few years ago for his DS5 Diesel Hybrid, but the photo is not DS5 either. Since Marcon is not yet sworn in, it may not be a state car, not sure.
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  #21  
Old 8th May 2017, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

May I say that the Citroen's in the photos are superb!

France has a new President Viva La France.

Interesting to see the President's car of course it will be French goes without saying!
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  #22  
Old 8th May 2017, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

OK, so the answers to the supplementary questions.

Actually, Ferdinand Porsche had nothing to do with the 2CV, but he almost did.

The 2CV (then known as the TPV) was originally going to be launched in 1939, just before the outbreak of the war. After hostilities broke out, Pierre Jules-Boulanger (PJB) ordered the 250 cars already produced to be destroyed. Today only 6 remain.

It is thought that the Germans got their hands on one of the prototype cars, perhaps complete, perhaps not. the car was sent to Ferdinand Porsche, who was extremely dismissive of the design. Despite this, the German authorities ordered that 3 cars be handed over to them, and tried for multiple years and many attempts to get their hands on the car. At first they offered in exchange for the 3 cars they would allow Citroen to make their own People's car, the KDF wagon (beetle), and varying levels of threats followed. Later they were ordered to produce the car and a car was sent to the factory along with Dr Porsche who was there to instruct them on the technicalities of the car and how to manufacture it.

However, on the arrival of the KDF, PJB ordered it to be pushed into a corner of the factory and covered up. He then instructed the workers to ignore both the car and the germans completely. German attempts to get Citroen to either build the KDF in place of the TPV or hand over the prototype persisted until 1944, but were ultimately fruitless and the KDF (and Dr Porsche) were shipped back to Germany.

After the war, the TVP was redesigned into the 2cv we all know.

Coincidently, if you're not aware of the story of Citroen during the war it is quite interesting, and a contrast to some other industrial firms. PJB was no fan of the Germans or the Vichy regieme and set about resisting in any way he could. He personally refued to meet any of them, and overnight the once efficient factory became completely incompetent and production only trickled out. Not only that, but organized and systematic sabotage was rife, for example trucks were sabotaged by cutting the notch in the dipsticks in the wrong place so their engines seized after a few hundred KM.

At some point the german occupiers ordered the presses and other factory equipment be sent to Germany and PJB arranged through resistance contacts to re-label all the railway cars at various yards in paris. Consequently they ended up all over europe!

After the war, documents were found that PJB was on a Gestapo list for execution (if Germany had pushed out the Vichy regime). He was awarded with a medal after the war that simply said "Non".
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  #23  
Old 8th May 2017, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Now the traction transmission. the traction was supposed to have an automatic Transmission.

some key design criteria were:
- 100km/h top speed
- 10l/100km fuel use
- Front wheel drive
- Monocoque design
- modern design so the tooling could be amortized over a long period of time

Other innovation that was not really part of the original brief but still significant
- Torsion bar suspension
- Overhead valve engine with wet liners
- Rack and pinion steering (from 1936)
- Hydraulic brakes

In his usual gambling way, Andre Citroen licensed a Design from Dimitri Sensaud de Lavaud. Sometimes these gambles paid off, and sometimes they didn't. Citroen was bullish about the transmission which I understand was somewhat like the buick dynaflow (one gear for starting, one for drive and a torque converter). HIs engineers were not and were unable to convince him otherwise. In the end they had to stage a role play where they showed four out of 5 cars could not climb a long hill without the transmission overheating.

This was a problem as the car was almost ready for launch so a transmission based on the casing of the 'automatic' was hastily put together, and was always the Achilles heel of the traction. it was fragile and the casing was too small leading to not enough fluid plus the situation if you break off a tooth, there is a good chance you'll split the casing in half. This has happened to my car in the past, and recently happened to a member of the Citroen club on her way back from an event in Victoria.
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  #24  
Old 9th May 2017, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Bryce, I am glad that you have provided all of those comprehensive details. I must admit that all I ever did was to grope around in the trying to scratch my head and stretch my brain, but I couldn't even find those ! Let's get back to battery sizes.

N.B. Love those special Citroens. Regards. Styria
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  #25  
Old 9th May 2017, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Well I think Ant got the closest, so perhaps your turn for the next quiz?
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  #26  
Old 9th May 2017, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Ok, I'll see what I can come up with.
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  #27  
Old 15th May 2017, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Looks like the new french president selected an army jeep for his swearing in, was wondering if the french Gov stillhas the SMs and if they would make an appearance.
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  #28  
Old 15th May 2017, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Quiz Question of the week (2/5/17)

Fascinating story, particularly reference to the gearbox. Somewhat off topic - when the Rover Company designed the four speed gearbox for the 3 litre Coupe and Saloon, and presumably the earlier model P4s, the working life of non-synchromesh first gear was - 60 hours !

They even tried a three 2" Carburettor set-up on the 3 litre engine (normally just a single 2"), and they gained an extra 3 h.p. with the triple carburettor set up. Food for thought. Another one - when they first fitted the Borg Warner DG Automatic transmission to the 3 litre body, the heat of the transmission melted the sound proofing they had supplied to the underbody of the car. Regards Styria
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