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MERCEDES W116 Discussion specific to the W116 model

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Old 11th March 2010, 05:03 AM
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Default Styria's 450se

Yep, you've read correctly. In addition to my 6.9 "Gleaming Beauty", I am also the proud owner of a 450SE that I bought some six years ago for the express purpose of fitting the interior to a 6.9. Incidentally, that 6.9 is now for sale, but more of that car and its details some other time. I was going to dismantle the 450SE at the time, but once I started looking at some of the finer details, and once I gave the car a good wash and clean-up, I realized that I had somethingt a little special on my hands. You know, some logbook details, original Sales Document etc. and I therefore decided that I would put the car back on the road at some time in the future.

Well, it's taken a lot longer than I had envisaged, but the time is well nigh to do so now. Incidentally, the guy I bought the car from had another 116, in gold as well but with olive green upholstery. I should have bought that car as well, but was not keen on the olive green interior colour scheme at the time. It'd be different today, as it is such a rare colour and it really was in top condition. Still sticking with the previous owner, the two cars were his and hers. GJ 2211 and JJ 1122 - nice plates and worthwhile saving. Anyway, the SE came with the first plates, and they are now on ChrisP.'s 6.9 "Wilhelm".

So, just a couple of pics. - with the car now in my garage having some polish put on and going through the paces - as it were.







I have obviously purchased another interior in the same colour MB-Tex and I will be fitting new carpets etc. Eighteen months ago, I had already replaced the dash top as the old one had some cracks, and the Zebrano timber is totally unmarked.



Regards Styria
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Old 11th March 2010, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

It's often been said that photos on the Internet can make a car look a lot better than in reality - well, in this instance, the car looks a lot worse than it really is. Anyway, right at this time that is not an issue. Far more important are other aspects of the car that require attention, and the front brakes are certainly one item in need rectification.

It was almost impossible to turn the front wheels presumably due to internal swelling of the brake hoses and/or seized caliper pistons. So. off came the front wheels, and it did not take long to realize that the front disc rotors had a huge lip at the outer edges.......



which would require new units that have now been bought and are ready for installation. Just a tip - to separate hub and rotor, I attach (if no vice available) the assembly to the front of a rim with tyre still fitted for weight purposes and this enables one to 'crack' the five Allen headed bolts that hold the two items together. A long extension for increased leverage is just about mandatory.On account of the lip around the edges of the disc, I decideed that it would be easiest (?) to separate the two caliper halves in situ. Not a bad job, as such, but the bottom bolt retaining the inner caliper to the stub axle is quite difficult, if not almost impossible, to remove with a conventional open ended spanner. Even a 'claw spanner' will not fit on as it is too wide, so out came a special Peugeot claw spanner that I had found at the markets in used condition and which I did not think I would ever use. If you have a look at the tools that I used, it is among them, black or dark in colour - a most valuable tool, for specific jobs. This was just such a 'specific'.



Having gone this far, I decided to remove the backing plate as well, and also the plastic inner front guard covers to blow out and clean all areas as best as possible. I am glad I did as I removed 0.69 kgs. (6.9) of caked in dirt from both sides.





I also struck some problems with the calipers. More in next post. Regards Styria

Last edited by Styria; 11th March 2010 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 11th March 2010, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Glad to see that you have started in ernest Godfather.

Looking forward to the step by step rebuilt of the 450SE
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel View Post
Glad to see that you have started in ernest Godfather.

Looking forward to the step by step rebuilt of the 450SE
Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I can only do a little bit at a time. As you'd know, I have now decided to have you re-spray Gleaming Beauty as soon as possible and practicable, and getting 'Old Gold' back into service is part of the process. I am really looking forward to have Jerry put his talents to the car under your capable guidance and supervision. As you know, I am thinking "Two Tone" and would be interested as to what other colour would tie in well with the 877 Petrol which is still to be the main colour. I'll probably start a separate thread on this somewhere along the line. Regards Styria
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

That does look like a nice straight car.

Gold paint is certainly growing on me too.

Did you ever find a source of the little rubber seals that sit between the caliper halves?
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'80 W116 280SE euro - the ride
'76 W116 6.9 euro - trusty rusty
'78 W116 6.9 euro - the AMG
'74 W116 350SE euro - the stand-in ride
'82 W126 500SEL euro - full hydraulics - the limo
'83 FORD XR3 - the beast

0 benzes on stands, 5 RUNNING
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Old 12th March 2010, 05:11 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Hi S-Class, you're pretty well spot on - it is a very straight car, does not show any trace of accident repairs, and although there is just a little bit of rust in a couple of not particularly important areas, it is virtually rust free - it does indeed make for a very pleasant variation from what can be a problem aspect with 116s.

Those rubber seals for the calipers - well, I have lost my share but luckily enough I have always had enough on hand to be able to complete rebuild tasks on the various calipers. I used to lose them when turning on the bench grinder to clean various components, and the turbulence from the spinning wire wheel was sufficiently strong to dislodge them from the work bench. You know there is only one area where one should find them - on the ground or floor, but the success rate of finding them was 30% at best - believe it or not. Thus, nowadays, as soon as I split the calipers, I wire them together for re-use and have never had any leakage problems. Regards Styria
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Old 12th March 2010, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Indeed, those little internal seals generally seem suprisingly pliable for their age, and I can well imagine that many of them could be reused. I replace them as a matter of course, but that is partly because I've managed to get on the right side of a local brake seal manufacturer, so I can get them new fairly easily.
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'80 W116 280SE euro - the ride
'76 W116 6.9 euro - trusty rusty
'78 W116 6.9 euro - the AMG
'74 W116 350SE euro - the stand-in ride
'82 W126 500SEL euro - full hydraulics - the limo
'83 FORD XR3 - the beast

0 benzes on stands, 5 RUNNING
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Old 14th March 2010, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

One would really be entitled to expect to be supplied with these seals when you purchase a caliper overhaul kit, I am not sure if the supply of a 'genuine' kit would contain those little seals, but one does pay a hell of a lot more for the genuine product - also, don't forget, do we really know who is the manufacturer of the genuine kit ? For the price difference, I'll give those seals a miss and make sure that I don't lose them any more.

The calipers I removed from the 450SE are Bendix manufactured items, and they are quite different with the method of the anti rattle springs used when compared with ATE calipers. In addition, the calipers have a boss cast into the bodies to locate the springs. Personally, I am not so sure if I am all that impressed with the Bendix arrangement. However, one can live with that and, I guess if it comes to that, it is not necessary to fit those springs. I stand to be corrected though. Here are some pics of components removed/rebuilt/restored as part of the overall work. One other observation - I spent six hours cleaning, servicing, painting these calipers. For a start, I was unable to remove the pistons neither with air pressure nor the grease method, but I saturated them with INOX and eventually "hard tapped" them put. I don't really know how else to describe that method. The real pain in the back side, and I mean real pain, refers to the fitting of the dust seals. There are no retaining grooves on the piston nor on the caliper body, and one is forced to rely on a thin steel retaining ring that holds the seal to the caliper body, with an additional retainer locating the other end of the seal to the piston. Not a nice job - in fact, I hated it as it took so long. Give me ATEs anytime.



I like to paint the hubs of the brake rotors - after even a short time with new units, you get a build-up of rust which I find unsightly.

More of the painted components with a bit of glamour (?) thrown in to get an appreciation of the task on hand........followed by a little elbow grease and a lick of heat resistant paint. The modified grease nipple that's pictured in the centre is the one that screws into the calipers, with provision to push grease through with a grease gun.






A few pints of fresh oil and ProMa additive should ensure reliable oil pressure for at least the next three to six months - remember, this engine has not really seen much action even in the last eight to ten years..




There is more to this picture than just a coat of paint - plenty of degreaser, detergent and elbow grease. I think the result, whilst not concours, is more than satisfacdtory....and last, but not least, an overall picture, getting ready to "walk the walk" in due course - I rather like the orig. hubcaps and will leave them on. It is amazing just how much simpler they are to clean and chamois down.



There is still a bit of a way to go. Rectify and remove some of the rust, service the rear brakes (not sure to what extent), have a bit of a valve body problem with the gearbox and finish off the interior of the car.

When all done, "Goldie" should be a very pleasurable car to own and drive. Regards Styria

Last edited by Styria; 14th March 2010 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 15th March 2010, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Great work Styria. Love the attention to detail on the small parts even.. Painting these parts make them come up great. I drive my cars too often these days to paint underside - but in time when it's transformed into a show car of sorts, I'll need to take on these tasks.

I was actually thinking of you when I took the calipers off the race car on Saturday. They still had a bit of silver paint, but it was clouded by the boiled brake fluid that spewed out when I roasted the seals.... They did me proud though. And result of the analysis from engineers was the pads simply got too low, so heated up quicker - then got hotter.. and basically sorta welded to the retaining pin - so when it pushed in it bent the pad and lots of heat and everything just shat itself.

Seems you had a bit of a bingle along the way too.
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Old 15th March 2010, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Styria,

That looks like a very nice car indeed - and some neat work you've done there.

I've not personally worked on Bendix calipers, but they certainly look more fiddly than the ATE units.

I have in the past bought genuine Mercedes caliper seal kits and the they DO NOT come with the little internal seals.
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'80 W116 280SE euro - the ride
'76 W116 6.9 euro - trusty rusty
'78 W116 6.9 euro - the AMG
'74 W116 350SE euro - the stand-in ride
'82 W126 500SEL euro - full hydraulics - the limo
'83 FORD XR3 - the beast

0 benzes on stands, 5 RUNNING
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Old 16th March 2010, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

That came up well indeed.

I'm not a fan of the bendix calipers, although they are all round on the W126. ATE versions are definitely preferable. They do however perform about the same.

Tim
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Old 29th March 2010, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Well done, Styria, Goldie is looking great! Interesting piece of trivia regarding the provenance of Wilhelm's rego too. Is that a Jaguar XJ220 in one of the pictures?
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Old 29th March 2010, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

styria your 450se looks terrific!

cheers tim.
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Old 29th March 2010, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

Re Gleaming Beauty two tone: Logically, the lighter colour should be uppermost which, in the case of your green 6.9 remains petrol green. This means the lower colour should be darker, but compatible with the existing green. Ask Michel about modifying the existing green but for the lower part of the car only, with, perhaps, a bit of black in it, or perhaps a dark grey addition to the mix. I am sure that either Jerry or Michel would have a valued opinion on the subject.

Maybe you should be looking at some of the colour combinations that RR have used over the years. They seem to get it right most of the time.

Perhaps Styria, you may with to start with a new thread, using this post.
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Old 29th March 2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Styria's 450se

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Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
Well done, Styria, Goldie is looking great! Interesting piece of trivia regarding the provenance of Wilhelm's rego too. Is that a Jaguar XJ220 in one of the pictures?
Spot on Chris, it is indeed a model of that fabled Jaguar model. I bought it a few years ago for about $220.00 (you don't say !) and it gets a Swiss Vac make over every so often. Regards Styria

N.B. As I said, I should have bought the 450SEL as well - all the guy wanted was $1k. A few months prior I had given him $3k. for 'Goldie'. Maybe I am glad that I didn't buy it - just look at how long I have had Goldie for - quite disturbing.

Last edited by Styria; 29th March 2010 at 10:14 PM.
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