Topklasse Discussion Board  
Home Forum Legal/Privacy Media/Picture Gallery Websites and Links Technical

Go Back   Topklasse Discussion Board > THE EXPERIENCE - DRIVING PLEASURE > TALKING TORQUE

TALKING TORQUE Feel free to discuss your Driving Experience in all other models as well!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13th February 2018, 12:08 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default The Citroen DS

The Rover p5 thread has been quite good, so I have created this thread about the Citroen DS in general. The DS is a very polarizing car, so this thread will not be for everyone. But for those who are interested I'll try and post from time to time about the DS and also my car.

I got a reminder mailer today from the Citroen Club about the 'Cit in' event. This is basically the annual event for the regional Citroen clubs to get together. I've never been, but had a quick look at the site and noticed that my car is in the banner:

https://cit-in2018.weebly.com/program.html

First car from the left, photo pre-dates my ownership when the car was on the sunshine coast.

My car is a 1970 DS21 BVH

This means it has the semi-automatic gearbox, 2175cc carby engine. My car is not a Pallas model so it has velour trim.

after being in a crash last year, my car is slowly being put back together and should hopefully be back on the road in a couple of months.

The best Citroen DS site on the web (through google translate) is this one:

http://translate.google.com.au/trans....fr/entree.htm
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13th February 2018, 03:29 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,075
Question Re: The Citroen DS

Try not to castigate me Bryce .. but I had thought about an early DS, probably in the sixties. But I was not impressed by the coarseness of the 4 Cyl Engine.
Morris Minors were designed to have a Boxer Engine instead of the ancient 4 cyl Side Valve they got. Was this also the case with the DS ???
$$$$$$$ shortage ??
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13th February 2018, 04:54 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sherry View Post
Try not to castigate me Bryce .. but I had thought about an early DS, probably in the sixties. But I was not impressed by the coarseness of the 4 Cyl Engine.
Morris Minors were designed to have a Boxer Engine instead of the ancient 4 cyl Side Valve they got. Was this also the case with the DS ???
$$$$$$$ shortage ??
Yes the engine was always the perceived weak point of the car and throughout its almost 20 year run they were trying to wring more power out of it.

The DS was supposed to have a flat six. It would have fit well under the low bonnet. However the prototypes did not produce sufficient power and were problematic. They ran out of time and money so in the end put a hemi head on the old traction avant long stroke four. Originally about 75hp if I recall. 1911cc and over time power grew through compression, carburation etc.

Later, in the mid 60ís the block was updated to the short stroke five bearing block. This was available in 20xxcc, 2175cc and 2347cc. The latter two sizes being available with Djet as an option. This was a big improvement, but the car was still considered under powered by many. The DS23ie had around 140hp gross. My DS21 has about 115hp gross. I would describe the power as adequate. The engine is a bit coarse and unrefined but much better than the old long stroke unit.

Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13th February 2018, 06:37 PM
abl567's Avatar
abl567 abl567 is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,781
Default Re: The Citroen DS

"Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic."

Of course! The English and the French adored each other back then.

That said I'm sure that didn't restrict deals.
__________________
W109 300SEL
#2723 6.3
#8659 3.5
W208 CLK430
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th February 2018, 07:58 PM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney - Centre of Civilisation
Posts: 6,465
Default Re: The Citroen DS

I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian
__________________
Real men drive a 6 speed manual.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13th February 2018, 09:26 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBoy View Post
I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian
The later big citroens are all under appreciated.. Even the more recent C6 was a lovely design even though I hear electrics let it down. Not easy to find nice CX or XM, so if you find one, jump on it!
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25th February 2018, 02:47 AM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,134
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBoy View Post
I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian
Benz Boy, I am interested in your comment about the GTi 6 shaping up as an almost completed project. Is there much more to go ? To me, the car looks just about perfect and completed. Regards Styria
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13th February 2018, 09:25 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by abl567 View Post
"Personally I think an engine along the lines of the Daimler 2.5 v8 would have been a great match and still fit in with French tax law making engines 2.8l and above uneconomic."

Of course! The English and the French adored each other back then.

That said I'm sure that didn't restrict deals.
Ha ha they probably would rather walk than use an english engine. However one of a similar design in france... no problem!
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26th February 2018, 10:03 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Fancy a rare DS project for $100? There are many to choose from as this farm is being sold and all cars in the shed must go. There are some very rare early cars in this sale.

https://citroenclassic.org.au/wordpr...ified/fr-sale/
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com

Last edited by c107; 26th February 2018 at 10:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27th February 2018, 08:39 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,075
Smile Re: The Citroen DS

Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27th February 2018, 10:13 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 952
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sherry View Post
Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...
The BW cars get more hate than they deserve. I drove a 23ie and found it most satisfactory. Having said that the one thing i had as a 'must have' on my DS was the BVH which I regard as integral to the DS experience. My opinion only.

There is a good write up on the BW in the DS here:

It is basically summarized down to:
  • Higher RPM at speed in top gear
  • Lower performance
  • Significantly higher fuel consumption

These cars may rise in popularity as I wonder how many of the next generation of car enthusiasts will be able to drive a manual gearbox? The BW box was an expensive option so the cars that have it tend to be the most highly optioned DS.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 27th February 2018, 06:23 PM
abl567's Avatar
abl567 abl567 is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,781
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?
__________________
W109 300SEL
#2723 6.3
#8659 3.5
W208 CLK430
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27th February 2018, 07:02 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,075
Thumbs down Re: The Citroen DS

Spot on about the next generation not knowing what the third pedal is for.
Even the current crop, including my 3 adult Granddaughters who would not even accept my offer of a free Manual Golf ! My Wife, two Daughters and Sons in Law all can Drive Manuals. But it has n't passed down the line.

P.S. close up the end float on Automatics as well to minimum Specs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27th February 2018, 07:33 PM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney - Centre of Civilisation
Posts: 6,465
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by abl567 View Post
Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?
http://www.classicjalopy.com/1970-citroen-ds21/
Regards,
Brian
__________________
Real men drive a 6 speed manual.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Citroen DS - The Goddess Styria ROAD TESTS 1 13th March 2013 09:49 PM
Citroen SM Maserati Styria ROAD TESTS 0 28th September 2012 05:58 PM
Citroen XM BenzBoy TALKING TORQUE 24 11th March 2012 11:04 AM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Topklasse 2017