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  #1  
Old 7th April 2019, 08:14 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
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Question Best Tires in the Wet

WE are never too old to learn !
Best tires for our 204 C class Turbo ????
Current Tires look ok, but I notice in the wet that they break traction on acceleration way to easily. So breaking on the front tires must also be questioned. It is little Wifey's Car and as she drives like a Hearse Driver this has never been an issue. At 9 years old and 71,000 Ks, and outside the usual yearly Oil Change and one set of Brake pads and Tires, the running costs have been very low.
So I don't mind changing the Tires again if necessary. We will now keep the Car
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Hi Sean,

Any tyre regardless of condition, should be replaced every 10 years.

Especially if these cars are higher speed highway/motorway cars.

In regards to your comment of breaking traction on acceleration way to easy, this is fairly normal on modern cars, saying that, older tyres also show this characteristic as they age and the tyres lose their softer characteristics.

Modern car traction controls don’t really work as good as promised, and will often break away almost uncontrollably.

My new company car X Tail just left in front wheel drive, (I usually leave it in auto all wheel drive) will spin uncontrollably and bang the drive train like someone hammering under my feet with a sledge hammer like old fashioned rear wheel axle tramp. The cars electronics just will not arrest this at all.

It seems to be something that most owners will never see or experience, but us “car” guys will always explore what our cars can do.

As you and everyone else here probably already knows, soft tyres = great traction and handling, but of course comes at the cost of tyre life.

Michelin, Continental’s & Pirelli’s have amazing handling and traction, but are very high wearing, so the 10 year limit would never be realised.

Japanese tyres like Yokohama, Bridgestone & Toyo’s all offer sports versions of their tyres that are also high wearing, but also offer some great mid range tyres.

As I have mentioned before here, the Thai made Maxxis were a terrific tyre for my very heavy Silver Shadow.

I have fitted many of the newer Chinese tyres to friends and relatives cars, with great success, my sons car has had Black Lion brand tyres on his car for over 50,000 k’s now and they are wearing great, and are very low noise, but he is also a stickler for the most neglected things I see in cars and trucks and that is tyre pressures.
He checks his once a week when he fills his car up.

Once a week may seem too much, however doing this he identified a slow leak in a tyre before it got too low that it would cause excessive heat due to low pressure.
The excessive heat is generated by the tyre wall flexing excessively thus the overheating of the sidewall, which generally is the main cause of tyre failure in Australia.
The very high road surface temperature also compounds this issue, so tyre pressures are the number one thing we need to monitor to ensure tyre longevity.

The wife’s Mini has a basic form of tyre pressure monitoring by keeping eye on the wheel rotation speed via the ABS sensors. If a discrepancy is noted a tyre pressure light will illuminate, but then it is up to me to find which tyre is low.
Not a bad simple system.

The next most important thing to tyre longevity, and another badly ignored part of our tyres is wheel alignment.

I recommend a full front & rear alignment every time you fit a new set of tyres, or every 50,000k’s
This will ensure the car tracks correctly, plus one thing more, it will identify and worn steering, or cracked or split drive boots, suspension rubbers and so on.


So getting back to tyres.

Generally they are what is called a begrudged buy, as the buyer can’t see its direct or obvious advantage of the purchase, like a new stereo, or window tint etc etc.

Sometimes people just say, I will buy the most expensive tyre money can buy, thinking they are buying the best, but this may not necessarily mean, it is the best tyre for their situation.

I’ve seen Continentals fitted by a father who thought most expensive = best to his daughters Mini, these tyres were completely worn out after 6,000ks.
The tyres were $245 each.
Was the mini destined for track days or similar, no.

I fitted some Chinese tyres to this car, and they now have 10,000k’s on them, and they are still excellent, and are very quiet and grip on the little Mini is excellent.

All I would recommend Sean is spend some time talking to your local tyre fitters or workshops and they will give some recommendations based on what they have fitted to customers cars, this insight is usually great info as most of the customers will want the cheapest they can get, so feedback on these cheaper tyres is good intel.

Anyone can go out and pay top dollar for a tyre, but a smarter person like you will want good value for the $$$ spent, and that value = tyre life V NVH V grip.

I also read all reviews on tyres I can find once I have narrowed down my selection.
People will be very honest on line if the tyres they chose do not live up to what was promised by the supplier.
So start reading

Ps.
Don’t forget a full wheel alignment

Last edited by Patrick_R; 7th April 2019 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Missing information
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  #3  
Old 7th April 2019, 02:32 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
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Talking Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Thanks Patrick for taking the time to explain the realities of today's Tires
In many ways I am rooted back in the Fifties..... old Dogs and new tricks !!!!
I see you have a "Shadow Two "Rolls and maybe I can return the favour with a suggestion to vastly improve the Transmission performance with very little cost and time. The car will drive much better as well. Just let me know.
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  #4  
Old 7th April 2019, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

That’s ok.

One day we can discuss new modern truck tyres.
Very high tech.

Sean,
I recently sold my beloved 72, Shadow, I was very sorry to see her go.

That would have been interesting mate.

In relation to tyres, here are some modern, wet, dry and intermediate tyres.

Wet weather tyre.


Intermediate tyre or a good “all rounder” (That’s why Bob Jane used that term)


Performance or dry weather tyre.

The above tyre will also be asymmetric tread design & directional
(Asymmetric means they have to be fitted with the words, “outside” facing out,
Plus the directional arrow facing in the forward direction)
This is very important to ensure if you pick a performance tyre, that they have been fitted correctly.



The below video is quite good, the last 3 or 4 minutes are not so good
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTJOnxRyg3k



Lastly,
If when you get your tyres fitted and you find your wheel balance weights opposite each other,
way to may weights or with huge gaps in between them, go back and get them re balanced.
Probably an untrained labourer has done the job.
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  #5  
Old 7th April 2019, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

I'd love to read a bit more about truck tyre technology, and modern trucks even more so. I still have the image of a two stroke Detroit Diesel with a twin stick transmission as driving a truck
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  #6  
Old 7th April 2019, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

That is still one of the best ways to think about a classic truck mate.

Im off to Darwin all week to carry out training, but I will start a truck GM 2 stroke diesel thread, if it’s applicable to TK.
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Old 7th April 2019, 10:30 PM
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SEL_69L SEL_69L is offline
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

i have always thought that the best wet tires for wet conditions have the softest compounds.
Because they are soft, they also have the shortest tread life.


Look at the example of Formula 1 tires. Softer compounds used for wet tires, and when they heat up on a drying track, they need to be replaced within a lap or two, for the car to retain competitive lap times.


Tires should be replaced after 7 years, irrespective of tread wear anyway, although we are all tempted to keep tires with good tread depth longer than that.

If you're not going to drive the car much, say less than 5,000 klm per year, 7 years X 5,000 klm / year = a total of 35,000 kilometers. That's OK for soft tires.

If you're driving 20,000 klm in the same car, a much harder compound would be a better way to go. Such a harder tire could be worn out within 3 years.


I have a soft compound tires on my E55. That must give me an added bonus of better road holding.
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Old 8th April 2019, 07:43 AM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

The only brand in which I have complete confidence is Michelin.
The rest are OK.
Regards,
Brian
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Old 8th April 2019, 07:58 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
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Talking Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Yes wheel balance can be quite tricky. I recall the Mk1 Ford Zephyrs fitted with 13 inch wheels being a nightmare to balance. Only way was on the Car, and splitting the weights inside and outside. It was a given that all the front suspension bushes were 100% and the tires fairly fresh with no misalignment
wear. Particularly a low Castor angle.
On all our C Class Mercs, over the years, they wear the outside edge of the tires, set to Factory specs.I set the track slightly out. Has always fixed this problem.:
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Old 8th April 2019, 08:03 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
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Smile Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Michelin.... cant argue with that.... I recall years ago a comment about Cars and also tires. If you don't know what Car to buy .. get a Merc 280E
With tires ditto...... Buy Michelin
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Old 11th April 2019, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_R View Post
That is still one of the best ways to think about a classic truck mate.

Im off to Darwin all week to carry out training, but I will start a truck GM 2 stroke diesel thread, if it’s applicable to TK.
Hi Patrick, that's most certainly in order. Remember, TK aims to provide as much information and interesting topics whenever possible. Please go ahead. Regards Styria
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Old 11th April 2019, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Hi Patrick, thanks for one of the most informative posts on TK. It makes for compelling reading as it is not that often that one is furnished with all of those relevant details. For all it is worth, my 6.9 Gleaming Beauty with its 18" Speedy (Taiwanese) wheels has been fitted with a mixture of Taiwanese and Chinese Nankangs 2.35.45.18's and I have to admit that they are close to being say eight to ten years of age. Naturally, I have been considering the possibility to have to replace them in the foreseeable future even though tread wise they are in perfect condition.

So it was with some encouragement to see you give tyres a lifespan of, shall we say, ten years. Obviously, I was pleasantly surprised at your generosity with your time estimate. I find those Nankangs surprisingly well suited to the 6.9's suspension. The ride is perhaps a little bricklike (?), possibly similar to the Air Suspension experienced on a 6.3. Quite firm and surefooted, with good directional stability, and a ride that absorbs unfavourable road conditions very well. Regards Styria
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Old 11th April 2019, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

We also have two other cars, namely Julie's Honda Jazz 2013, and she replaced the Dunlop SP 131 Sports(on car since new) at about sixty three thousand kilometres. 15" ers, and they probably had another six months life. Never any problem, totally sure footed dry and wet, although the car has only ever experienced wet road condition on about a dozen occasions. As replacements, we chose exactly four of the same tyres - namely aforementioned Dunlops - we couldn't see any reason for other tyres. We also stuck to exactly the same size.

I also have a Holden Captiva, and I purchased four Michelins for the car. The price was right, but the wearing qualities (longevity) is open to question. Again, no problems, whether in dry or wet, but I am not sure what replacements I will fit in due course. More on this Captiva of mine in another thread. Regards Styria
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Old 11th April 2019, 09:48 PM
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Arrow Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Thanks for the feedback Styria.

I can often bore people senseless, so I am glad you enjoyed the read and pics.

If tyres on or “Special” cars are kept in good condition, and are not subject to UV rays 24/7 10 years is quite acceptable.

But if the car is kept out side all the time, sun will shorten this time frame for sure.

For Gleaming Beauty,
Replacement Nankangs I would say are in order.

You had nothing negative to say about them at all, so why not run them again.
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Old 12th April 2019, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Best Tires in the Wet

Patrick, regarding the Nankangs. Initially, I bought four new rims especially "cut or prepared" for my Gleaming Beauty, and the tyre shop at the time (Neale's Wheels - now in Camden, previously South Strathfield) together with four of the Nankangs - in total, I paid $1 grand for the package, which included machined spacers.

Those rims were just about the last ones, so I bought the remaining two, again with new Nankangs, so in total I have six of each - obviously four on car and two spare units. I also have four chromed Bundts with the correct size (2.15.70.14) as spare units just in case I want to change for whatever reason at a future date. I can also say this though - at one stage, I had another set of Bundts on Gleaming Beauty with 205.70.14 or 225.65.14 shod with Michelins Certis and neither of those Bundts and Michies gave me as good and sure footed a ride as the Nankangs.

Just thought about something - I really should have pics. or illustrations accompany some of my musings (!) - it would create lot more interest and better information. I will have to get my act together. Regards Styria
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