Topklasse Discussion Board  
Home Forum Legal/Privacy Media/Picture Gallery Websites and Links Technical

Go Back   Topklasse Discussion Board > THE EXPERIENCE - DRIVING PLEASURE > TALKING TORQUE

TALKING TORQUE Feel free to discuss your Driving Experience in all other models as well!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old 24th February 2018, 01:57 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by abl567 View Post
Pity they lost the lower prices guarantee!


It is quite a good business model to charge people to look at your wares and then use the 'museum' aspect to try and sell above market rate.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24th February 2018, 02:33 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

This one is a nice example of a late production DS.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/...-5174813/?Cr=6

The DS23 i.e. was the most powerful. This one comes equipped with a borg warner 35 automatic which is common in Australia but very rare worldwide. Citroen prepared the full automatic transmissions for the USA market but then had to exit due to other regulations that would have cost far too much to get around. So many of the transmissions they already had were put on RHD cars and sent to Australia, another market that favours this model. We (Australia) had outlawed the BVH in 1971, which made this model more attractive. Today many look down on the BW35 equipped models and prefer either the 5 speed manual or the 4 speed semi-automatic. Having driven one of these the added power of the 23ie engine probably gives it similar performance to my DS21 carby. Regardless this car is probably priced as a 5 speed or BVH (and even then probably a bit high).
















__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25th February 2018, 02:47 AM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,142
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBoy View Post
I would adore a DS, a CX or an XM but alas I have enough litres to drain the piggy bank and not enough hours in the day to do justice to them all. I have looked seriously at several CX and XM but each had enough in the way of problems to scare me off and so I found the 306 GTi 6 which is shaping up to be an almost completed project. I hear on the grapevine of a low kms XM that belongs to an elderly gentleman who has just given up driving so maybe there is some possibility there.
By all means a DS thread is an excellent one to have.
Regards,
Brian
Benz Boy, I am interested in your comment about the GTi 6 shaping up as an almost completed project. Is there much more to go ? To me, the car looks just about perfect and completed. Regards Styria
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 25th February 2018, 02:58 AM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,142
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by c107 View Post
This is an interesting car. Rather rare as it started out life the same as my car, a 1970 DS21 BVH (Non Pallas). However it has been highly modified over the years, including a partial pallasization.


The price seems high to me for such a modified car but overall I like it.

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/d...15608301/?Cr=1
Those seats look superb - I think it's only the French that can build such comfortably luxurious seats. The car itself ? I am afraid, a mish mash of a rather loud exterior, with an interior scheme screaming of "not right" and at odds with the exterior colour. Under bonnet - not the best, unless I am getting mixed up with another post. It would not be a car for me. Regards Styria
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25th February 2018, 03:02 AM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,142
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by abl567 View Post
It is in the right location for its business model, an old Bunning's warehouse. Pity they lost the lower prices guarantee!
.......TUT, TUT, TUT.......but you guys are probably spot on. Regards Styria
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 25th February 2018, 07:14 AM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney - Centre of Civilisation
Posts: 6,466
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styria View Post
Benz Boy, I am interested in your comment about the GTi 6 shaping up as an almost completed project. Is there much more to go ? To me, the car looks just about perfect and completed. Regards Styria
Jerry painted the wheels last week so they have gone back on with new Michelin Pilot tyres and all that remains now is to repair some minor interior trim items so it's close to completion.
Regards,
Brian
__________________
Real men drive a 6 speed manual.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 25th February 2018, 08:09 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Styria View Post
Those seats look superb - I think it's only the French that can build such comfortably luxurious seats. The car itself ? I am afraid, a mish mash of a rather loud exterior, with an interior scheme screaming of "not right" and at odds with the exterior colour. Under bonnet - not the best, unless I am getting mixed up with another post. It would not be a car for me. Regards Styria
Yes this car is non original in many ways, just a few below:
- The colour
- the seats have been recovered but not like factory
- car has some pallas trim but not all
- chevrons upside down!
- carpets

It does have one upgrade I would do to my car if I had that parts which is the radiator setup from the DS21ie or DS23. This has the header tank, improved radiator and electric fan.

If it were cheaper it could be a car you could drive and slowly improve over time.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 26th February 2018, 10:03 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Fancy a rare DS project for $100? There are many to choose from as this farm is being sold and all cars in the shed must go. There are some very rare early cars in this sale.

https://citroenclassic.org.au/wordpr...ified/fr-sale/
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com

Last edited by c107; 26th February 2018 at 10:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 27th February 2018, 08:39 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,095
Smile Re: The Citroen DS

Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 27th February 2018, 10:13 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sherry View Post
Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...
The BW cars get more hate than they deserve. I drove a 23ie and found it most satisfactory. Having said that the one thing i had as a 'must have' on my DS was the BVH which I regard as integral to the DS experience. My opinion only.

There is a good write up on the BW in the DS here:

It is basically summarized down to:
  • Higher RPM at speed in top gear
  • Lower performance
  • Significantly higher fuel consumption

These cars may rise in popularity as I wonder how many of the next generation of car enthusiasts will be able to drive a manual gearbox? The BW box was an expensive option so the cars that have it tend to be the most highly optioned DS.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 27th February 2018, 06:23 PM
abl567's Avatar
abl567 abl567 is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,786
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?
__________________
W109 300SEL
#2723 6.3
#8659 3.5
W208 CLK430
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 27th February 2018, 07:02 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,095
Thumbs down Re: The Citroen DS

Spot on about the next generation not knowing what the third pedal is for.
Even the current crop, including my 3 adult Granddaughters who would not even accept my offer of a free Manual Golf ! My Wife, two Daughters and Sons in Law all can Drive Manuals. But it has n't passed down the line.

P.S. close up the end float on Automatics as well to minimum Specs.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 27th February 2018, 07:33 PM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney - Centre of Civilisation
Posts: 6,466
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by abl567 View Post
Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?
http://www.classicjalopy.com/1970-citroen-ds21/
Regards,
Brian
__________________
Real men drive a 6 speed manual.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 28th February 2018, 08:01 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBoy View Post
To expand a bit on the article that BenzBoy linked, the BVH tries to do the same thing as the Hydrak but arguably does it better.

Mechanically it is a standard 4 speed manual box, same as the manual cars. There are just a few hydraulically controlled components to handle the clutch operation.

The system is quite clever and is very adjustable, so you can adjust the shift speeds, the amount of creep at idle and so on. I'ts practically impossible to stall a BVH car even though it has no torque converter or fluid coupling.

I suspect the system was expensive to build as Citroen moved to the C-matic system for the GS and CX which used a torque converter and in my opinion was inferior.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 1st March 2018, 07:26 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 993
Default Re: The Citroen DS

Good article about the DS and some of the related cars:

https://petrolicious.com/articles/th...gns-of-citroen
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Citroen DS - The Goddess Styria ROAD TESTS 1 13th March 2013 09:49 PM
Citroen SM Maserati Styria ROAD TESTS 0 28th September 2012 05:58 PM
Citroen XM BenzBoy TALKING TORQUE 24 11th March 2012 11:04 AM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 07:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Topklasse 2017