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MECHANICALS With a 30 year-old automobile, there will always be discussion here - maintenance, modifications and mechanicals.

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  #1  
Old 11th November 2010, 01:54 PM
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Tony66_au Tony66_au is offline
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Default Coolant type/brand suggestions?

As I am slowly working through the "Sorting" of my 450 and yesterday I started on the possibly faulty duovalve on my 230TE so I am in coolant replacement mode but this brings with it the responsability of using the correct coolant type..............

I had noticed that MB use a variety of materials in their cooling system and as the M117 is a cast iron block/Alloy head and I assume the radiator is brass or alloy im a bit stuck on which is the suitable coolant.

Suggestions?


Tony
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Old 11th November 2010, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Hi Tony, I guess the puristi, with heap of monies, will tell you to use the Mercedes recommended coolant. In my case, I need to be satisfied with using Nulon concentrate. According to the dollar sign, it is probably one of the better brands, so I use it. You know, it is also said that you should use distilled water in nthe system - well, I don't, although I should.

BTW, having carried out two valve grinds and de-cokes on 6.9s, I need to say that corrosion can be an issue, but I would be very surprised if one is able to avoid that problem irrespective of any type of coolant you'd use. Just pay a bit extra, and hopefully you're doing the right thing. Regards Styria
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Old 11th November 2010, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

If you use genuine M-B coolant they supplied an amber one in the past which was known to silt up radiators and was superseded by the Blue coloured one.

I have had aradiator silt up on me in the past and don't ever want it to happen again - so I'm a purist.

Cost is about $140 if mixed 50:50 with distilled water but lasts a long time if you have no leaks.

Some prefer 30% coolant concentration in distiiled water and this is adequate for normal Australian cold weather.

Bill
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Old 11th November 2010, 07:12 PM
John S John S is offline
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Distilled water is OK to mix with the coolant, but if you have a supply of deionised water (some industries have supplies) and are tempted to try it, whatever you do, DON"T USE IT!!!!! You will ruin your car!!!
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Old 11th November 2010, 07:20 PM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Which coolant has become the subject of extraordinarily hot and emotional debate in R-R circles because some based on OAT have been blamed for wrecking the liner/head seals.
At this stage I am playing it safe and using the genuine in the Spirit (and the ML/CLK). That way I have some comeback if there is an issue.
I do know that there appears to be a lack of consensus amongst the experts and that the issue is far from resolved. Meanwhile, I run the PII on Sydney Water and cross my fingers. I reckon it does not matter if I ruin the head as it must fall to bits anyway the day I take it off - given that it appears not to have been removed at all in the last 77 years!
Regards,
Benz-Boy
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Old 11th November 2010, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Evening all,

My 260E has just had a coolant change today old coolant flushed and new coolant added the coolant that was used was Nulon it is a green colour I hope that is the correct coolant to use for my model Mercedes?

The 260E has also had a new Serpentine fan belt fitted and the brake and diff fluids changed and a 5,000km service two weeks ago.

Already for Summer now!

Cheers.
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Old 11th November 2010, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 260ebenz View Post
Evening all,

My 260E has just had a coolant change today old coolant flushed and new coolant added the coolant that was used was Nulon it is a green colour I hope that is the correct coolant to use for my model Mercedes?

The 260E has also had a new Serpentine fan belt fitted and the brake and diff fluids changed and a 5,000km service two weeks ago.

Already for Summer now!

Cheers.
....but Timmy, the Air Con. system is not working ! Regards Styria
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Old 11th November 2010, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Styria View Post
....but Timmy, the Air Con. system is not working ! Regards Styria
Styria yes you are right the a/cond compressor needs to be replaced the existing unit is cactus!

In the New Year my plans are to have a new compressor fitted and all set to go.

Cheers.
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Old 11th November 2010, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Personally, I wouldn't use generic coolants that aren't designed for European vehicles (including Castrol & Nulon). I normally add a 50/50 mix of Lemforder blue & distilled water, every 2 years. The genuine MB stuff is just too dear. Make sure you thoroughly flush out the system first, with clean high pressure water (in both directions). If this isn't done, silt will eventually block everything.... It's a good idea to remove the thermostat to make the flush more effective. Reconnect the bottom radiator hose, but push it on only enough to hold water for a few minutes. I like to disconnect one heater hose at a time & blast high pressure water (a garden hose will suffice if the pressure & flow are good), through the expansion tank until it runs out the disconnected hose & pipe clean. Then I blast water back through both the hose & disconnected pipe (individually) & out the filler neck. Then I fill the system with clean water & disconnect the bottom hose. I find the sudden rush of water removes scale much better than just a high pressure hose. Repeat several times until the water runs out clean. Re-connect everything (AND TIGHTEN ALL THE CLAMPS), before refilling with the 50/50 coolant. BTW I make the mix in a large bucket first & any leftover I return to an empty bottle & label it 50/50 and the date mixed. I use this if I need future top-ups... New hose = new clamp. Don't use ones with open slots for the screw thread, as they'll cut into the hose when tighened. Wurth Zebras are the best. This procedure works for most vehicles. I take no responsibility if you choose to do all this on the side of the road outside your house; during water restrictions! And even though you may've paid for it, don't expect even a MB service centre to follow this procedure!!!!!!!!!! You might be lucky if they drain out the old stuff & put a few bottles of new stuff back in (along with some tap water...... including fluoride & chlorine)!
Oh & does anyone know if there's any coolant drain plug/s for the block on a M100??
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Old 12th November 2010, 05:25 AM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Oversize is on the money.
Why people buy any hose clamp other than the Wurth type is beyond me...
Also, have a read - http://www.denso.com.au/Products/Aft...-Your-Radiator
Regards,
Benz-Boy
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Old 14th November 2010, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenzBoy View Post
Which coolant has become the subject of extraordinarily hot and emotional debate in R-R circles because some based on OAT have been blamed for wrecking the liner/head seals.
At this stage I am playing it safe and using the genuine in the Spirit (and the ML/CLK). That way I have some comeback if there is an issue.
I do know that there appears to be a lack of consensus amongst the experts and that the issue is far from resolved. Meanwhile, I run the PII on Sydney Water and cross my fingers. I reckon it does not matter if I ruin the head as it must fall to bits anyway the day I take it off - given that it appears not to have been removed at all in the last 77 years!
Regards,
Benz-Boy

Ahhhh now you're in an area I do know about.

Let me relate to you all some experiences from a previous business.

A number of years ago I was involved in a specialist workshop and many years prior I was a backyarder or Independant workshop and although I am not a Mechanic I had 2 excellent mechs working for me who were sick of the trade as it was back then and I leaned an awful lot from these guys and those who came after them, all gifted in their own special ways but no good with running their own shop so they worked for me instead.

Coolant and gaskets, Hoses and so on..........

Its like this Gents, IF your car had coolant and then for whatever reason you stopped running coolant, even for a few months and then returned to using coolant I could guarantee that in 80% of cases id see you back with blown hoses or head gasket issues.

About the time a certain popular cheap pre mix came onto the mass market I suddenly was swamped with falcodores with leaky heads and popped hoses and what I found was that the coolant added to the system was softening and rotting hoses and doing the same to head gaskets, Commodores were another thing with voltage issues because the coolant was turning the cooling system into a battery, causing electrolysis and literally plating the galleries with alloy which came from the radiators lol (Hence the Red coolant being acidic).

So the moral of the story is keep coolant in your car, keep it at a consistent mix and change it out every few years or it could cost you a bomb in head-work and popped hoses.

Tony
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Old 14th November 2010, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Many thanks for the info Gents, as im rural my garden taps are all dam fed and dirty, my house tank is nice and clean but still impure so it looks like in hunting for 20lt of distilled water and sussing out supply and price of Lemfoerder Blue coolant!
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Old 15th November 2010, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Good topic this, isn't it ?....and your stories, Tony, do make one think about this, that and the other. In my case, with both Gleaming Beauty and ChrisP.'s astral silver "Wilhelm", I was not particularly careful in maintaining the correct coolant at all times, especially so with Gleaming Beauty. Removal of both heads clearly showed very little corrosion damage - sure, there was some - but it was not excessive. The heads work on both cars cost about $1300.00 each car, and that included replacement of valve guides - both types, I think, i.e. Inlet and Exhaust.

Gleaming Beauty had a major problem with water mixing with oil. I had in fact noticed about twelve to eighteen months earlier that green coolant would squirt out from No. 4 cylinder on start-up, obviously with plugs out. That caused a few furrows on my forehead, but being the eternal optimist, I was hoping against hope that with certain measures I instigated that the problem may have been alleviated to some extent - and that's how it turned out. The head gasket leak really showed up when I added coolant (Nulon or Castrol) and the stuff began to search for leaks. Sure enough, it found them. BTW no, it was the blue MB stuff that did the trick ! Anyway, the leak on No. 4 was not due to corrosion - rather a small bit of the gasket had ' burned ' and caused the water to leak into the oil at the oil return orifices right at the back of the head.

With Chris' "Wilhelm", the valve grind and decoke was part of the sale and maintenance arrangement. It had not given any trouble. As a matter of interest, there are plenty of pics for both jobs in another section of the forum. Regards Styria

Last edited by Styria; 16th November 2010 at 03:39 AM.
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Old 15th November 2010, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Distilled water is very easy to find in 4 litres at the Supermarket or 10 litters at the auto stores.

I always flush with distilled water as well which goes through a bit but makes sure that what is left behind on the final flush is as uncontaminated as is possible and then I add 50% of the specified volume in undiluted coolant and top up with distilled water.

I am guessing lemfoerder blue and M-B blue have a lot in common - still think the small amount extra is cheap peace of mind.

Bill
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Old 15th November 2010, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Coolant type/brand suggestions?

Thanks Styria (And Bill).

Just a bit of background for you all, I have in fact very few relevant qualifications but I do have a bit of experience and im constantly learning things.

I owned and ran 2 workshops, the first was successful because we actually did the job and applied old school customer service, returned old parts etc.

The second was an excuse to have a toy shop (A sideline from my normal business which was unrelated) which eventually turned into a business in a small niche involving engine management systems both factory and aftermarket but as time wore on we ended up doing mechanical work as well whilst being careful to NOT step on the toes of the mechanical workshops around us but I have also worked with and helped out Auto elec's and most recently a friend who used to do ground up resto's and metal fab.

A great artist with a sandbag and hammer who made from scratch many panels that are just not available to buy, Sadly he shut up shop for health reasons so im back to bogging and welding in my barn when I have the time.

But wait, theres more!

Ive also trained in electronics and comms which led to Computers working for others and running a business of my own and inbetween all of that I drive trucks, bus's and Limo's, Cabs and hire cars.

Theres more but im not publishing it here lol

My problem these days at the relatively young age of 44 is that my brain reached critical mass roughly 5 years ago and as new info came in it lost or erased old skills I hadn't used which worried me for a while but I came to accept after getting some info on the issue so on some things im really lost and yet with others its as if I did it yesterday.

Then add to the mix my heritage and Dutch upbringing and you have what you see here today.

A very very interesting bloke lol

Tony
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