Topklasse Discussion Board  
Home Forum Legal/Privacy Media/Picture Gallery Websites and Links Technical

Go Back   Topklasse Discussion Board > THE CRAFTSMAN - TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT > TECHNICAL INFORMATION

TECHNICAL INFORMATION How-to and detailed information on specific technical subjects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18th May 2016, 05:30 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Thumbs down Class Action

Another reason to drive 6 speed Manuals...
There is now a Class Action suing Ford for faulty Duel Clutch Automatics.
Apparently 70,000 of them. Doesn't say who is the .Manufacturer . not necessarily Ford.
A repeat of similar a Class Action in the States
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18th May 2016, 06:33 PM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,117
Default Re: Class Action

You did indicate, Sean, that VW have abandoned the idea of dual clutches from their passenger car range. Furthermore, I also understand that the 1.2 (or 1.4) petrol engine with both Turbo and Super Charging as fitted to the Polo have been discontinued as well. Problems like those are really quite horrible to contemplate and, whatsmore, cope with. Read in the Motoring section the other day about a Volkswagen purchased in December of last year has spent the best part of two months at the dealership rectifying (or trying to) an untold number of problems.

Incidentally, I also read the other day that the Mini Cooper as produced by BMW has the worst liability record of any car. Others in that category (lemons) were three Jeep models, and some VW model - the exact details escape me. Oh, Nissan Utes also copped a hammering. Regards Styria
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18th May 2016, 07:47 PM
abl567's Avatar
abl567 abl567 is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,780
Default Re: Class Action

And those of us who paid "over-inflated" prices for a Toyota or 2 on the promise of high resale prices and mind numbing reliability are rewarded with...


high resale prices and mind numbing reliability

Granted my experience is based on 2 new Hilux 4WD Dual cab utes and the driving experience is on par with the reliability...
__________________
W109 300SEL
#2723 6.3
#8659 3.5
W208 CLK430

Last edited by abl567; 18th May 2016 at 07:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th May 2016, 09:12 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Lightbulb Re: Class Action

"Customer Satisfaction Program"... Ford do have a way with words explaining a fix for their Duel clutch Automatics.
Reminds me of a Program when I worked at a Ford Dealership fixing the front suspensions on the then new Falcons.
Replacing all the Ball Joints was termed a "Product Improvement Program. "It involve chiselling out the rivets on the top and bottom Wish Bones and bolting in new Ball Joints. The replacement B/Js were filled with Molybond Grease.

So far so good with my 6 speed manual Golf, same as the last one that I wrote off, no issues. Neither has seen a Dealership and long may it continue !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th May 2016, 10:28 AM
motec 6.9's Avatar
motec 6.9 motec 6.9 is offline
Prodigal Son
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: perth
Posts: 5,894
Default Re: Class Action

Imagine most Euro car companies trying to stay in business trying to validate 5 or 7 year warranties .
__________________
Research more post less.
Memnoch #1873 6.9 255.6 RWHP
The Kommando believed only 1 in Oz
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23rd May 2016, 07:04 PM
Styria's Avatar
Styria Styria is offline
The Godfather
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,117
Default Re: Class Action

I would imagine that we'd have another NSU disaster going back to the '60s - remember the ill fated Wankel engine ? It broke NSU. Regards Styria

N.B. NSU also made beautiful Motorcycles. I still remember them as a kid in Austria in the '50s.

https://youtu.be/EbLVDTJ9fio

Last edited by Styria; 23rd May 2016 at 07:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th May 2016, 09:31 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Smile Re: Class Action

Yes Styria ,NSU should have stuck with Motor Cycles. I well remember their Super Max 250's sweeping all before them in the fifties. Even the 350 Manx Nortons could not keep up with them. The unique design of the Engines is worth a look in Google.
It is interesting that Ford, GM and ZF are all developing 10 speed Hydraulic Automatics. Mercedes all ready have a nine speed. All in the name of fuel consumption and hence emissions. Keeping the engine revs in the most efficient area. The much more simple CVT does the same thing with two variable pulleys. Think back to my 1913 500cc Rudge Motor cycle, Pulleys were mechanically operated by a hand lever. Worked very well except that the belt hated Rain !
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th May 2016, 04:36 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Smile Re: Class Action

CVts won't take the higher torque I hear you cry....... Well simpley double up on the drive belt .q.e.d.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24th May 2016, 04:40 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 921
Default Re: Class Action

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sherry View Post
The much more simple CVT does the same thing with two variable pulleys.
It might be because my experience is with cheap rental cars (of which I have all too much experience), but the 3-4 times I've driven a CVT I've found it a hateful experience. Ruined the whole car.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th May 2016, 07:04 PM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Smile Re: Class Action

But ,But, most cars are just A to B. My Daughters Subaru CVT 6/7 seater of some sort has been fine for 6 years. Son in Law once complained that it was in high gear too much.. use the Gear lever was my advice.. since then no complaints.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25th May 2016, 07:27 AM
Michel's Avatar
Michel Michel is offline
One Of The Boys
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 8,446
Default Re: Class Action

I think the CVT hate is simply because one feels that the clutch is slipping as you accelerate.
If you floor it, you hear this high rev pitch that feels like the car is revving and not going anywhere.
But...
It is an audible illusion as in reality you are moving in a very efficient rev range.
__________________
Michel

1978 W116 690SEL # 3312
1985 R107 500SL AMG
2000 W208 CLK430 Coupe
2003 W163 ML320
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 25th May 2016, 07:54 AM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 921
Default Re: Class Action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel View Post
I think the CVT hate is simply because one feels that the clutch is slipping as you accelerate.
If you floor it, you hear this high rev pitch that feels like the car is revving and not going anywhere.
But...
It is an audible illusion as in reality you are moving in a very efficient rev range.
The main issues i have with them are:
- trying to do a quick overtake or go into a small gap and the they get bogged down and take forever to realize they should let the car rev up
- the vibration and shaking at full throttle
- they get confused at times and are in the wrong ratio
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 25th May 2016, 09:12 AM
sean sherry sean sherry is offline
Aristocrat
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,061
Smile Re: Class Action

Yes Michel, the most efficient Rev range is what it is all about. An A to B piece of transport. As with all Automatics they can't think nor see the road ahead, that's why they have an over ride gear lever to ensure the best gear ratio for a coming road /traffic condition.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25th May 2016, 05:24 PM
BenzBoy BenzBoy is offline
Noble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sydney - Centre of Civilisation
Posts: 6,459
Default Re: Class Action

I've never driven a car with CVT. What cars have them?
What are they like to drive?
regards,
Brian
__________________
Real men drive a 6 speed manual.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25th May 2016, 05:42 PM
c107's Avatar
c107 c107 is offline
Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 921
Default Re: Class Action

They are very common with economy cars like small Toyotas and Nissans. The manufacturers like them because they are cheaper to make and they can offer lower fuel consumption than a torque converter auto.

The CVT attempts to keep the revs in the optimum power band of the motor so when you accelerate the revs stay constant and the car gains speed. Hard acceleration has the car staying near redline until you gain speed. Some people find this disconcerting but you quickly get used to it.

They have a reputation for being fragile and certainly the ones from the mid 2000s were. Apparently they are now more robust. The simple way to think of how it works is a metal band and two conical pulleys which move to adjust the ratio. The early ones would have overheating problems on acceleration due to friction as the ratio changes.

Regardless of anyones like/dislike for the CVT they are now in a large number of entry level cars due to fuel consumption and cost.

I've never driven one i thought was any good because the theory doesn't match the reality. The engines they are mostly used on are small economy models and the CVT struggles to react in time when you want power - like the early throttle by wire cars in the 90s. In addition the power takeup is rarely smooth (can get quite jerky) and the CVT finds itself in the wrong ratio and is unable to react in time. I suspect the whole concept would work better on an engine with a flatter torque curve.
__________________
Bryce
http://www.classicjalopy.com

Last edited by c107; 25th May 2016 at 09:30 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C Class for Tim motec 6.9 TALKING TORQUE 5 28th February 2015 11:34 PM
A Class AMG sean sherry TALKING TORQUE 3 11th August 2013 08:11 AM
The new B-Class Styria ROAD TESTS 2 28th July 2012 09:30 AM
One for s class Lukas TRADING POST/EBAY LISTINGS 3 16th May 2009 01:31 PM


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright Topklasse 2017